In this episode, we sit down with Michel Dumont. Michel self-identifies as a queer, Métis, Two-Spirit, disabled artist and trauma survivor based in Thunder Bay, Ontario. He studied Visual Arts and Psychology at Lakehead University, and his work specializes in breathing new life into discarded vintage tile in striking mosaic pieces. As a survivor of intergenerational trauma stemming from Indian Day School, Michel's work often explores emerging themes in anti-colonial urban indigenous and queer identities.
Dumont has exhibited widely in group and solo exhibitions in Ontario, Quebec and Manitoba. In 2018 he was recognized as Visual Artist of the year by Thunder Bay Arts & Heritage. He has received two residencies at the Banff Centre for the Arts & Creativity, an artist fellowship at the Leslie-Lohman Museum, NYC, and was chosen as the 2022 Indigenous Artist in the Park, a residency at Allen Gardens, Toronto.
This podcast is presented by the Northern Ontario Pride Connection with support from Taking IT Global and the Sprout Ideas Fellowship Program. To learn more visit: northernontarioprideconnection.ca
Instagram: @northernontarioprideconnection
Facebook: facebook.com/northernontarioprideconnection
Email: info@northernontarioprideconnection.ca
Website: northernontarioprideconnection.ca
In this episode, we sit down with Michel Dumont. Michel self-identifies as a queer, Métis, Two-Spirit, disabled artist and trauma survivor based in Thunder Bay, Ontario. He studied Visual Arts and Psychology at Lakehead University, and his work specializes in breathing new life into discarded vintage tile in striking mosaic pieces. As a survivor of intergenerational trauma stemming from Indian Day School, Michel's work often explores emerging themes in anti-colonial urban indigenous and queer identities.
Dumont has exhibited widely in group and solo exhibitions in Ontario, Quebec and Manitoba. In 2018 he was recognized as Visual Artist of the year by Thunder Bay Arts & Heritage. He has received two residencies at the Banff Centre for the Arts & Creativity, an artist fellowship at the Leslie-Lohman Museum, NYC, and was chosen as the 2022 Indigenous Artist in the Park, a residency at Allen Gardens, Toronto.
This podcast is presented by the Northern Ontario Pride Connection with support from Taking IT Global and the Sprout Ideas Fellowship Program. To learn more visit: northernontarioprideconnection.ca
Instagram: @northernontarioprideconnection
Facebook: facebook.com/northernontarioprideconnection
Email: info@northernontarioprideconnection.ca
Website: northernontarioprideconnection.ca
00:00:07:16 - 00:00:48:07
Kyelle Byne
Welcome to Queer in the North, the podcast that amplifies the rich and diverse stories of 2SLGBTQ+ seniors in northern Ontario. My name is Kyelle Byne and I'll be your host as we embark on a journey of discovery, resilience and celebration, shedding light on the unique experiences and wisdom of individuals whose stories have often been overlooked. So much of Northern Ontario's queer history hasn't been documented, but lives in the stories and memories of 2SLGBTQ+ older adults, people who have lived through challenges and changes in queer culture in recent decades spearheaded incredible campaigns of advocacy and allyship and driven so much of the work that has led to the current state of
00:00:48:07 - 00:01:18:19
Kyelle Byne
to see LGBTQ plus culture in the region. Together, we'll explore the vibrant tapestry of identities, challenges faced and triumphs achieved by our extraordinary queer elders. Get ready for an insightful and inspiring series that aims to bridge generations and foster understanding in the heart of northern Ontario. Michel Dumont self-identifies as a queer, mighty two spirit, disabled artist and trauma survivor based in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
00:01:18:21 - 00:01:46:06
Kyelle Byne
He studied visual arts and psychology at Lakehead University, and his work specializes in breathing new life into discarded vintage tile and striking mosaic pieces. As a survivor of intergenerational trauma stemming from Indian Day School, Michel's work often explores emerging themes and anti-colonial urban indigenous and queer identities. Michel has exhibited widely in group and solo exhibitions in Ontario, Quebec and Manitoba.
00:01:46:08 - 00:02:07:07
Kyelle Byne
In 2018, he was recognized as Visual Artist of the Year by Thunder Bay Arts and Heritage. He has received two residencies at the BAMF Center for Arts and Creativity and Artist Fellowship at the Leslie Lohman Museum in New York City, and was chosen as the 2022 Indigenous artist in the Park, a residency at Allen Gardens in Toronto.
00:02:07:08 - 00:02:27:21
Michel Dumont
Hello. My name is Michel Dumont and I am Kim. I was on Reach for the Top in 1984. I was 17. I was part of a team from Nippy in Red Rock, which is from up here in northwestern Ontario, and we were third in Ontario. So they realized that I was a smart puppy and they threw me in front of a camera.
00:02:27:23 - 00:02:54:20
Michel Dumont
So it was a national quiz program. And so, yeah, you know, coming out, man, you know, going 90 kilometers west to Thunder Bay, it involves taking a series of Greyhound busses and then hitchhiking with the farmers from back home. why are you going to Thunder Bay? I'm going to see friends. You know, I'm going to the mall.
00:02:54:22 - 00:03:18:10
Michel Dumont
You know, 80 kilometer. You know, it's like rides go to the mall. I had a boyfriend. And so the thing is, in high school, I came out to like a couple of people just before prom. It was like, they're my best friends. They was like, well, you need to know I have a boyfriend in Thunder Bay now, and, you know, this is this is who I am.
00:03:18:12 - 00:03:43:04
Michel Dumont
And so in 1985, that was really rare. And I made sacrifice by coming out. But for me, coming out was a joyful experience. It was like, thank God. I figured it out. That self revelatory, you know, feeling it was like for me, it was like getting out of jail. I was out on a date house and I was going hog wild.
00:03:43:06 - 00:04:01:15
Michel Dumont
Of course I was going hog wild with one man. But hey, yeah, I mean, in high school I would tell the teachers that I have to, like, you know, go to Thunder Bay to do a paper. And then I would go to the related university because he was like an honor student in chemistry. But really, I wasn't reading anything.
00:04:01:15 - 00:04:16:22
Michel Dumont
I was just staring at his furry forearms. You, you know, I'm like all gaga, all teaching puppy love. Although unlike Heart Stopper, we, like, explored each other below the belt.
00:04:17:00 - 00:04:20:00
Michel Dumont
My only problem with heart stopper.
00:04:20:02 - 00:04:25:22
Kyelle Byne
Is on a different network Hearts of offers on Netflix. And this was HBO. Max.
00:04:26:00 - 00:05:05:05
Michel Dumont
Right. I get that now. Okay. Okay. So, yeah, that's my my neophyte stuff. So, yeah, I started activism within six months of coming out at 19, and it just seemed like, my God, prejudice and the fact that I wanted to kiss a man with a mustache and being a man, I was going to like face ostracism. And yeah, so most of the activists that I knew in Thunder Bay were working at the AIDS committee, so they were already established men who had previously worked at the gays and lesbians of Thunder Bay, but they sort of let it go to the wild when they got funding for the AIDS committee.
00:05:05:10 - 00:05:31:14
Michel Dumont
And so they all started working there. So these older men in their late twenties, early thirties were running the only sort of queer outlets, which was the the AIDS committee. And I was volunteering with them as well. You know, I was like the pretty young eye candy they put in the in the reception desk at the front desk to meet the public because I would wear suits, you know, I would like you know, I was, what, 20, 21?
00:05:31:16 - 00:05:53:00
Michel Dumont
I was beautiful. And so and I could talk to the public. And so that's what you needed for a front desk person. But the city was so, like, dangerous at the same time. So, you know, the fact that I would sit in the front reception desk of a public window on a major street that they put me there for a reason.
00:05:53:03 - 00:06:15:13
Michel Dumont
So I did it a few times and I met some really fantastic people. I loved volunteering with them. But queer activists that like Queer Right or Human rights seemed to be like the part of a basic thing. Like when you have to attack prejudice, you have to start attacking at its root. And so not just this prejudice about a disease, There's prejudice about, you know, people catching this disease.
00:06:15:13 - 00:06:38:20
Michel Dumont
Right? And so I felt that both were equally important. And of course, they were a great resource, you know, when I. God. Canadian University Press, I was asked to do a workshop or a seminar on HIV, an indigenous communities. And the thing is, I worked with many to copy and I don't know if you're aware of their who they are.
00:06:38:20 - 00:06:55:15
Michel Dumont
They wrote, God, it's she's a lesbian elder coming out of the closet. And what's her book? I can't remember her books name. It was like a lambda, you know, nominee a couple of years ago. I mean, it's a copy. So she's a drag queen.
00:06:55:17 - 00:07:04:08
Kyelle Byne
As a as a sign or to I'm going to, like, come up with like a recommended leading reading list, too. And like, I'll I'll, I'll find the stuff and I'll put like a little list at the bottom of the podcast. Like, read these books.
00:07:04:10 - 00:07:28:05
Michel Dumont
Minnie. Jacob. It's so it was, it was it was helped written by a researcher that because she spoke Ojibwe and came out of the bush you know speaking only ajiboye and learned English by the age of 12. And so because she was sort of like hidden from schools by her grandparents, she's she's now 80 and she speaks, you know, wonderful Ojibwe.
00:07:28:07 - 00:07:50:01
Michel Dumont
And so when I first met her at 90, I'm like a quarter. So I'm a gibbering French. She looked like my grandmother. And I remember saying, my God, you look like my necklace. And so she was much too young of a lady to be my granny. And so but she wasn't offended. She she knew it was like the cheekbones, skin coloring, just like she looked like my granny.
00:07:50:07 - 00:08:19:03
Michel Dumont
But then we were from the same sort of part of northwestern Ontario. So you know, who knows? We're probably cousins and cousins like several generations back. But so meeting her at the AIDS committee, she was doing the translation for all the sacred sex material into a national bow and, you know, Ojibwe. And so she was actually paid and that helped her come out of the closet as a lesbian because she got, you know, independent from her ex-husband.
00:08:19:07 - 00:08:42:01
Michel Dumont
And it's all in her book. And so when she, you know, wrote it, like for her journey, you know, into the white world and then into lesbianism, you know, saved her from a lot of abuse. Right. And she had quite, you know, a history of substance abuse and living on the street in Thunder Bay and then finally coming out of the closet and going, my God, this is me.
00:08:42:03 - 00:09:05:16
Michel Dumont
And that's what, you know, changed her life. Right? You know, that acceptance of self. And it's funny, I met one of her granddaughters here. I showed her some of my artwork. I showed her a beaver and she said, I'm Beaver Clan. And I went, I know you are, sweetie. Yeah, that's why I'm showing you. I've known your granny for like 30 years.
00:09:05:16 - 00:09:47:01
Michel Dumont
So yes, it's sweet that I've had that life. I'm fortunate that I had the opportunity to, you know, meet some incredibly wonderful people. But, you know, being an activist was extremely important to me. Injustice and bigotry. It was frightening. Like I helped start the gay group at the university. So when there was this lack of, you know, all these previous generation of activists and there's always like even in a smaller city like Thunder Bay, there's always these hardcore activists that are constantly running the dances, the fundraisers, they're manning the phone lines, they're doing all the community work that had not been done by governments, right?
00:09:47:07 - 00:10:17:17
Michel Dumont
And more formal organizations. We just did it like we have a community need. Let's start a group and do something about it. So so yeah, I mean, so many think representing, you know, the queer identity here in northwestern Ontario like that as we produce material, right? Like so I would bring like the Women's Collective or their pamphlets and stuff to like conventions in southern Ontario to show them that we're doing homegrown activism up here because we're isolated, we have to count on each other.
00:10:17:17 - 00:10:46:11
Michel Dumont
But I have to tell you, at our local AIDS committee, we had the extra magazine that the newspaper and Fab magazine. And so once a month we would have news of the gay world before the Internet. And it was like, yes, there is acceptance, there is queer arts, there's all this stuff in a larger metropolitan city. For me, I realized I had to try to make Thunder Bay better whenever I met a beautiful queer soul who said, you know, Should I move?
00:10:46:11 - 00:11:06:03
Michel Dumont
I always said, Yes, move. You'll be happy or happier. And so living up here, I found I know I can talk about this for hours. If you're in a relationship, you can be happy anywhere. It doesn't matter where you live. It's when you're single. That's when living up north can still be a bit of a struggle. The Internet, of course, helped.
00:11:06:05 - 00:11:13:12
Michel Dumont
It opened up my access to the rest of the world right? I only have an art career now because of the internet.
00:11:13:14 - 00:11:34:03
Kyelle Byne
I guess the challenge being that there is like there is queer culture and it exists in these big metropolitan areas and stuff. sure. And this added challenge of like wanting to create queer culture in these smaller, more remote communities, but then also being at the same time being like, absolutely, people feel free to go. Go to where queer culture is.
00:11:34:03 - 00:11:50:12
Kyelle Byne
You'll be happy. Yeah, it'll be thriving. You'll see this happen, right? But then also there's still that like, but also we need folks here to like, build that queer culture. You know, we can only without the people here, we can only do so much. But also we don't want to deprive people of being able to go and find themselves elsewhere.
00:11:50:14 - 00:12:12:16
Michel Dumont
So another thing about the eighties and nineties, there's there was like such prejudice that, you know, I met a lot of, you know, young professional, queer professionals who had beards, right. You know, So if you wanted to be a teacher, you make sure you had a lesbian wife. That generation is only a couple of years older than me.
00:12:12:20 - 00:12:37:06
Michel Dumont
I was, you know, staunch when I came out in the mid eighties that I would not do that. However, I didn't judge the choices that people made because society was forcing them to appear heteronormative. So if you wanted to have a meaningful profession to be self-sufficient, you sometimes had to make those horrible accommodations. And the thing is, I suffered.
00:12:37:06 - 00:12:58:04
Michel Dumont
I didn't get my degree. I faced a lot of homophobia at that university. At the same time, I went there for seven years because there was a small welcoming community. But how I put it when I started the Rainbow or the central Pride, like the gay pride group at Bellevue, we used to call it Big Igloo. And so Jen Metcalf was the one who got club status.
00:12:58:06 - 00:13:21:16
Michel Dumont
I started the year before with her when we were just, you know, meeting at the gender center, I think, or something like that. It was called We started this group because we all knew the game. Lesbian staff on campus were closeted and we all knew them like Jen knew the lesbians. I knew some of the lesbians who worked there, know some of the gay professors who were just too afraid to come out of the closet.
00:13:21:16 - 00:13:46:01
Michel Dumont
And I'm like, If the staff are afraid, what chance do our students have? Like, I knew only a handful of queer students who were able to get their degrees. I had way too much intergenerational trauma to do that. I was like getting therapy on the fly, figuring stuff out. I was taking psychology course, try to figure my family out.
00:13:46:02 - 00:13:48:09
Michel Dumont
I was one of those.
00:13:48:11 - 00:13:55:20
Kyelle Byne
Nothing like a first year psych course to really open stuff up as to like,
00:13:55:22 - 00:14:21:16
Michel Dumont
yes. my God. It's so this is the thing that there was such a trade off. So like, I had, there was so much animosity towards me for being out. you're not as strong of a human being because you're closet isn't, you know, impeccable. You can't pretend to be straight, right? Like you're not playing the game.
00:14:21:18 - 00:14:59:05
Michel Dumont
And I'm like, I don't want to play that game. I'm going to, you know, have a big mouth and I'm going to yell at me at Queens Park. Hey, hey, hey, Ho, My terrace has got to go. I did all of that. But, you know, sometimes the movement needs loud, brash people like me. And really, it's only been in the last decade or so since these queer art worlds have started getting, you know, recognized and appreciated and indigenous art and all those intersections that when I was younger I was told, don't tell people you're Indian, don't tell people you're gay, don't tell people who you are, because it will diminish your work.
00:14:59:07 - 00:15:10:13
Michel Dumont
Your work should stand on its own. And so I had all this advice not to be myself and so I didn't make art for years, like I was an artist. But I mean, I channeled it in other ways, right? Yeah.
00:15:10:16 - 00:15:16:14
Kyelle Byne
It wasn't. It was an authentic art. It wasn't your art. It was the art that you were told that you should be making.
00:15:16:16 - 00:15:27:11
Michel Dumont
my God, Yes. And I'm not going to paint pretty geraniums for the rest of my life. And I wasn't going to do it then either, even though I could have probably done a beautiful photo. Realistic, you know, Geranium.
00:15:27:13 - 00:15:42:12
Kyelle Byne
Yeah. It's it's fascinating to to hear you say that to in the culture. Not even shit, because I know that that still exists. But even just at the time where there was this sort of perception of like, you know, if you can pass.
00:15:42:17 - 00:15:42:21
Michel Dumont
You.
00:15:43:01 - 00:16:00:21
Kyelle Byne
Should and you should absolutely conform. Whereas I think I know a lot of folks now where it's almost like and myself personally, when when I was first coming out, actually a lot of the criticism I heard from people was, you aren't queer enough, you could too easily and therefore you don't really suffer.
00:16:00:23 - 00:16:23:03
Michel Dumont
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I've heard that too. Yeah, I've seen that. There's a dichotomy like between the urban and rural. When I see urban queer folks micro peck at each other, I look at that and I mean, for example, like the last time a police officer stopped me for holding my boyfriend's hands in Thunder Bay was only seven years ago or so.
00:16:23:05 - 00:16:41:15
Michel Dumont
And I, I met a few middle aged white queer boys, you know, on the Internet from Toronto. And they were like, homophobia like, that doesn't exist. It's in the past. And I'm like, Hey, it just happens to me a couple of years ago, so don't give me that. Like, I know there are some people who will say things like, there's no more homophobia in our public school board.
00:16:41:15 - 00:17:00:08
Michel Dumont
And I'm like, No, no. There's still a closeted Christian fundamentalists who are horrendous, like still, you know, being employed by the board. They're just not as public about it. I mean, I know this because I raised a child and put him in the school board system and talked to like principals, and it was horrible. Some of them, you know, And so.
00:17:00:10 - 00:17:06:09
Kyelle Byne
And even even if they're not as overt about it, it's still they can still make your child's life hell.
00:17:06:11 - 00:17:06:18
Michel Dumont
God.
00:17:06:22 - 00:17:09:03
Kyelle Byne
They just don't need to be as explicit about it.
00:17:09:05 - 00:17:31:06
Michel Dumont
When my son was like three years old, we moved into this neighborhood, my partner and I, and we met another little girl who was three. And, you know, it was like they were playing across the fence. All I was talking to the parents or the mother when I explained that, you know, my son had two dads, She like she had told me she was a public school board teacher.
00:17:31:08 - 00:17:57:14
Michel Dumont
And then the minute she found out I was queer, she said the kids couldn't play together, that she was a Christian. And I'm like thinking, and she's only a block away from where I live with my kid. And you work for the public school board. Give me a break. There's still work to be done. We can micro pick each other about, you know, are you visible as a minority or are you visible as disabled?
00:17:57:14 - 00:18:15:09
Michel Dumont
I get it. You know, there are each row that we have to hoe is individual and difficult. And I'm not going to judge that. You know, I have more privilege than you do or not. I'm just going to say, hey, this is what I have encountered, this is what I've learned and this is what I've tried to address it.
00:18:15:11 - 00:18:41:23
Michel Dumont
So, I mean, I try to make the city better and yeah, we had pride for about 11 years now. Yay, we needed it. And when I see allies come out of all different ages, you know, at certain events, I go, thank God. Like our first protest became pride the next year because there was a young gay man who got bashed outside of a bar and he was at my house the week before, so I had just met him.
00:18:42:01 - 00:19:10:08
Michel Dumont
He had to get facial surgery to construct his eye socket and stuff, but there was like 6000 people at a downtown park. And I'd say, you know, 5000 of them were straight. And I was just floored. At the Allies ship, my son was about six years old when that happened, and I was like, thank God, because I was busy trying to live my best life, raising my cousin, being a single parent on disability.
00:19:10:14 - 00:19:30:01
Michel Dumont
I had this little child. I had to teach how to go fishing, right? And of course, my son was six years old when he told me, you know, he was heterosexual. And I'm like, I know, honey, but thank you for telling me. You know, Dad, I know he was paying attention to every truck you wanted to play with and every blue color you wanted.
00:19:30:03 - 00:19:34:16
Michel Dumont
I was paying attention. I was taking notes. Yeah.
00:19:34:18 - 00:19:49:12
Kyelle Byne
What would you say then, is the the most significant change that you have seen in Thunder Bay or like in northern Ontario specifically? Like over the course of like that 19 year old helping all of that help line to today, what's the biggest significant change that you've seen?
00:19:49:14 - 00:20:13:19
Michel Dumont
There's less self-hatred. I think the internalized homophobia was horrendous and having to navigate around people. And once again, I'll mention that some of the guys who criticized me for being so out and loud and proud in my youth are now married to their partners, and they thank me for the activism that they could not do at that time.
00:20:13:21 - 00:20:52:11
Michel Dumont
So it is wonderful that I was able to do my part so they could get married. Whenever that happens, I'm always like, thanks. I know people can change. Like I know people grow and the conservative gays out there, I love them and I accept them. They just have to accept me. So there have been amazing inroads with it, self-acceptance within the gay community up here like when I see, you know, native gay teens, when I'm doing a workshop with them and see that, yeah, and team spirit.
00:20:52:11 - 00:21:16:01
Michel Dumont
And I'm like, thank God, you can say that you're 14. I'm so happy that you can say that it makes it all worthwhile. It's funny, like I'm now like getting known for my artwork. You know, I got mentioned in Vogue magazine for my costume making, and I just want Ontario Craft Award last week. I'm being asked to show at the age ago.
00:21:16:03 - 00:21:37:06
Kyelle Byne
I would be, I think, remiss if I didn't, but unfortunately kind of bring the mood down, but mentioning, like we talked about the state of the school system and right now there is some not fun things happening with the school system. And so what I kind of want like like talk about the sort of like a two pronged approach.
00:21:37:06 - 00:22:08:01
Kyelle Byne
You know, like we've talked a lot about like the incredible strides that have been made and the way that like, kids are like kids are standing up for themselves, you know, like and they're they're being such incredible champions for this. But then there is still that horrible downward pressure from certain oppressors, really. So looking at the sort of the current state of the the new curriculum and the the Million Children March and all these like groups of people who are trying to like drag society backwards.
00:22:08:01 - 00:22:20:02
Kyelle Byne
What gives you concern with that? What gives you hope with that? Like what's sort of where do you stand with with the current state of specifically queer folks in curriculum, but just the current state?
00:22:20:04 - 00:22:48:17
Michel Dumont
So a couple of weeks ago I put myself forward to like speak at a rally against the million, you know, whatever family things I found myself, you know, behind three students who are currently in high school. And they're part of their GSA, you know, their Gay-Straight Alliance. They were eloquent. They were succinct products here to my eye, listening to them.
00:22:48:19 - 00:23:08:20
Michel Dumont
They understand themselves at such a young age, and they can be they were so passionate. I couldn't follow that. I'm just like they said, everything, No one. And then all these these members of parliament came up and talked and all these other and I'm like, my God. They let the youth just say it because they they're living it day to day right now.
00:23:08:22 - 00:23:32:03
Michel Dumont
Right? And so when I look at it in the broad terms, yeah, I understand certain families of certain faiths, you know, are bringing this to the forefront frequently. It's religious attitudes that are behind this type of oppression. Right. The fact that, you know, they say, we're not homophobic, but we don't want children to self describe their gender or their pronouns.
00:23:32:09 - 00:23:55:16
Michel Dumont
And the thing is, the head of the school's board was there and she's like, my God, Michelle, I like what I like. I told her, Hey, my son was six when he told me he was heterosexual. It's like fellow, you know, kids know, you know, they know their pronouns, they know their sexuality. This is all been studied like this is like the curriculum is being blown out of proportion.
00:23:55:18 - 00:24:19:17
Michel Dumont
The hype and the negative. They're beating a whole drum that we've heard time and time again. The the language may have changed just slightly, but it's the same old fucking drum. And see, there we go. I finally swore, but I get angry when I see such ignorance. Try to remain positive and say where in the majority we're in the majority.
00:24:19:17 - 00:24:42:16
Michel Dumont
And we're also right in Thunder Bay. And I don't see this very often. I saw two women holding hands like young, young women. Yeah, I've over the years I've seen this tentative hand holding in the odd restaurant over the last few years. So it's just to see them walking in public down the street, you know, casually holding hands.
00:24:42:16 - 00:25:08:15
Michel Dumont
I'm like, Yes, yes. my God, It's about time. You know, I could only date men who could do that. Right. But I remember going to Calgary in 96 and holding my boyfriend's hand, who was a political activist with QPR in 96. During the day, we were holding hands, like in Montreal, and that's where I met him. And then in Calgary later that summer when I moved in with him because he could hold hands.
00:25:08:15 - 00:25:22:05
Michel Dumont
I'm like, okay, you're out. Good. A police officer on holstered his gun like he snapped his, you know, his his gun put his hand on his gun and gave us the most evil look.
00:25:22:07 - 00:25:23:13
Kyelle Byne
For holding hands.
00:25:23:14 - 00:25:51:23
Michel Dumont
For holding hands. And this is 96 in Calgary during the day and in Montreal in Calgary, we had gay people congratulate us for holding hands during the day because some people barely did it at night, like in Montreal. We were told that some were like, people only hold hands at night on St Catherine Street. And so, yeah, being publicly out, that visibility so important, even if putting yourself in danger.
00:25:51:23 - 00:26:14:00
Michel Dumont
And I knew that that police officer was deadly serious, that if at the at the least he was just trying to scare us to be straight acting, fuck that noise that makes me just wear like the Walking Pride pamphlet, like the Campaign for Equal Families T-shirt I had in the eighties or the early nineties. A guy I was a walking billboard.
00:26:14:05 - 00:26:32:01
Michel Dumont
If you're going to be if I'm going to be in Act up Cologne, I better have like I'm a big supporter of gay rights on my t shirts, you know, yadda, yadda. And I still do it like I'm still a walking graphic novel, you know? And the thing is, there are some people who need to see it, right?
00:26:32:01 - 00:26:53:09
Michel Dumont
Like this one guy at a gas station was pumping gas and he's like, I love your T-shirt, man. And I'm like, It's all about, you know, kissing man. He knew that. And I'm like, hey, my gas station attendant, just shit. He's part of the family. Yes. Okay, cool. So, yeah, there's still areas where work needs to be done.
00:26:53:14 - 00:27:14:03
Michel Dumont
The first teacher, like the principal who when she met me, she was an older woman and she thought I was. I was. I was a gay dad. therefore it's bad, right? I she had to, you know, watch out for my son. So my son was great, too, when he was in that school started grade two, Grade three, she calls children's aid on me.
00:27:14:05 - 00:27:39:01
Michel Dumont
I'm getting a phone call from Children's Aid. I'm like, why is that happening? And can you tell me what the allegations are? And the social worker said, Well, there's allegations that there is foul language in your household, and I like foul language. Okay. So I she came over for a visit with my son who was maybe nine or six.
00:27:39:01 - 00:27:59:13
Michel Dumont
I can't get you. Six was young. Okay. So here we are, you know, in my living room. And I ask my son, he's sitting on my lap. And I said, okay, what are the bad words Daddy says? And he says, Well, you say the S-word. And I'm like, okay, what's the S-word? And he says, You say, shit. And I'm like, okay, that's okay.
00:27:59:13 - 00:28:22:08
Michel Dumont
We sit every day. And then I say, Okay, what other bad words does Daddy say in front of the social worker? And he says, You will. You say the C-word. I'm like getting worried, you know, to equate sweat, what's the C word? And he's like, crap. And I'm like, that's okay. We crap every day, too. And so she said she spent time with him alone.
00:28:22:08 - 00:28:48:00
Michel Dumont
She said, he's a marvelous child. And I'm like, I know he is. It's just this bigoted, scared principal. So at the end of the year, getting to know that woman, I gave her a thank you card with a little angel on it because it was a French Catholic school system. That woman gave me a hug. She, like, grabbed me a big bear hug, like for forgiving her for doing that type of shit.
00:28:48:06 - 00:29:10:20
Michel Dumont
Right. And then the next year, she invited me to teach art, you know, with other classes of kids, sometimes it takes one person to change someone's opinions. She had to get to know me. And I know people need to get to know me when I meet people who have no idea who the hell I am. It's like, Get to know me and you will like me.
00:29:11:00 - 00:29:25:14
Michel Dumont
I didn't use foul language in my household for about 14 years. My son was 14 when he realized they knew how to say fuck. And I'm like, he started using it and I'm like, Well, now that my role modeling is over, yes.
00:29:25:14 - 00:29:27:14
Kyelle Byne
So now we can go ahead.
00:29:27:16 - 00:29:50:15
Michel Dumont
Now I can letter wrap. But yeah, but the thing is, she was just making something up like she was. Her concern was for my son's safety. I had that in checked. I had that it was on like it was okay. I just had to show her. And so much to her credit, she excelled by getting me into the classroom.
00:29:50:19 - 00:29:54:00
Michel Dumont
And, you know, teaching art as a parent teacher.
00:29:54:02 - 00:30:04:06
Kyelle Byne
Becomes like a very powerful moment, I think, for for her and in her life. Yeah, I was like, hey, I had this fear for this child. I'm going to make up these allegations so I can like.
00:30:04:07 - 00:30:04:20
Michel Dumont
Yes.
00:30:04:20 - 00:30:24:21
Kyelle Byne
Just like, see, is something wrong? Is something there? And then having that learning moment and then having forgiveness like you being able to offer her forgiveness is a moment of like, this isn't if this person is able, especially, like you said, like French Catholic, the value of forgiveness in Catholicism is so powerful that it becomes this moment of like I knew I did wrong.
00:30:24:23 - 00:30:32:14
Kyelle Byne
And I have been given this forgiveness by this thing that I used to fear. Why? Yeah, it's like completely changing hearts and minds. I think.
00:30:32:15 - 00:30:52:16
Michel Dumont
So. I know how to kill with kindness, right? Like whenever I've had to confront ignorance, like giving her that thank you card, I could have just been angry at that woman and say, How dare you put me through that experience? Or I could say I forgive you because I understand the root causes. You know, it was safety. I get it.
00:30:52:18 - 00:31:15:04
Michel Dumont
I don't like how you did it. I don't like how it happened. But at the same time, it gave her an opportunity to grow and when she invited me the next fall to come in to teach, you know, Stirling's class how to make candles, I was like, so me growing to be able to forgive, that's that's. I had to pat myself on the shoulder, too.
00:31:15:06 - 00:31:27:11
Michel Dumont
I'm like, normally when I was younger, I would have been triggered. I would a bit angry. I would have had a protest. I would have, you know, at the same time, I'm older now. I'm a parent. I had to, like, keep my shit together, you know?
00:31:27:13 - 00:31:42:15
Kyelle Byne
Well, in that one moment of, like the the, the ongoing impact of that, that one moment of forgiveness, that thank you card means that that next year like you're in. Yeah. You're talking to dozens of kids, you're in dozens of classes, all of a sudden you're a powerful role model for.
00:31:42:16 - 00:32:03:14
Michel Dumont
Like there's a gay man sitting in their art class with a leather vest in leather cuffs. Yes. Wearing, you know, a gay t shirt that's, you know, like throw me to the bears or something. Right. So there's visibility, which is important. And so as the years progressed, his grade eight class, when they were graduating grade eight, they all wore rainbow pride bracelets.
00:32:03:14 - 00:32:25:12
Michel Dumont
And I'm like, my God, it's probably because of us. And it was so sweet. And seeing that change in youth, I'm going to I'm crying because I knew that my presence in the school made a difference, even if it was only a couple of times a year. But those few years mattered, right? Yeah. So yeah.
00:32:25:17 - 00:32:49:13
Kyelle Byne
It's sort of like a final question. Just kind of to go out on what advice would you give to young to us LGBTQ plus folks who are just starting their their journey either with their identity or maybe they've known themselves for years in there and they're starting an activism journey, or they're just now taking this moment to be like discovering their identity.
00:32:49:13 - 00:32:53:20
Kyelle Byne
What advice would you give them as they begin and go forward?
00:32:53:22 - 00:33:17:11
Michel Dumont
As I had older activist friends, I have younger activist friends like I have younger LGBT friends that with my costumes and, you know, the drag queens that I work with. When I was younger, I had older activist friends that invited me over for barbecues, a couple of drinks and stuff like that at board game nights. They taught me queer pop culture.
00:33:17:12 - 00:33:37:10
Michel Dumont
They taught me, you know, you need to read this book. Lesbian Nuns Breaking the Silence or Ruby Fruit Jungle. For me, when I'm talking to younger teenagers, I'm like, You need to find out who Armstead Maupin is in Tales of the City. You need to watch Priscilla Queen of the Desert, and you need to you need to like, not just heart to heart stopper.
00:33:37:13 - 00:34:03:07
Michel Dumont
You need to go back and learn some more queer references. And so, like, for example, Angels in America, I watched this with a younger queer friend. It was a tear jerker. And of course we watched some RuPaul's Drag Race afterwards, right? So getting thanked by younger people is wonderful, but I love them to be able to go, Hey, let's check out Angels in America and see where us as a culture has gone before.
00:34:03:13 - 00:34:16:16
Michel Dumont
And so I'm always like, Hey, celebrate our culture, dig in some Bette Davis references and Judy Garland and Liza minnelli. No, not just Taylor. Although I've learned that Taylor Swift is quite remarkable.
00:34:16:18 - 00:34:18:13
Kyelle Byne
Yes.
00:34:18:15 - 00:34:22:17
Michel Dumont
I mean, so this trade off. Yeah.
00:34:22:19 - 00:34:31:15
Kyelle Byne
But like built building, building through like the entire repertoire of queer culture, like the queer culture wouldn't be where it is today without where it was like.
00:34:31:20 - 00:35:01:04
Michel Dumont
And the previously young queens have pop culture references like Gene Simmons doing with Gray Gardens. It's like, Yes, yes. You know, or, you know, what's your face? I worked with such evil or kinky and I only smalls, by the way. I have some real red. I do. I do. I have some credit. So the point being is learn Wayland Flowers and Madame learn about performers, queer artists.
00:35:01:04 - 00:35:14:06
Michel Dumont
There is a wealth of culture to explore and enjoy it. Revel in your queerness yourself. I see that. I see that queer joy and that queer magic. And I go, Yay!
00:35:14:08 - 00:35:37:07
Kyelle Byne
This podcast is supported by taking it Global and the Sprout Ideas Fellowship program. Special thanks to Ken Kemp for audio editing and sound design. Queer in the North is a production of the Northern Ontario Pride Connection, an organization dedicated to fostering allyship and understanding for two LGBTQ plus people and allied leaders and businesses across all of northern Ontario.
00:35:37:08 - 00:35:43:10
Kyelle Byne
You can learn more about our work by visiting www.northernontarioprideconnection.ca